Well done. I have been fascinated by the descriptions of the last / great Judgement. It is clearly multilevel and interactive with the whole of humanity, both the righteous and unrighteous. So that it appears that the whole of the history of the world and humanity will be replayed for all to see. We shall know fully as we are fully known. The queen of the south will rise up.... A person of faith. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah will rise up .... People condemned for their sin. Every idle word, every hidden thing. The image is of the whole of humanity seeing all that is done by everyone. It also seems that we will understand all the hidden aspects of creation, how the world comes together. I think this is necessary for us to know what each person's actions flow from, what influences, and what struggles. Paul says we will judge angels. Again, our full knowledge will go to the total influences that come into their rejection of or obedience to God. This total knowledege will allow us to join in Christ's judgment of the world. Every human will understand the actual level of obedience, love, hatred, rejection for each person and angle / heavenly being. Each person will know, understand, and be in full agreement with the judgement given to them. Yes, the flames of regret will be very hot, what I could have done with what was given to me, and the reality of what I actually valued and loved. The glory that will be revealed in us will be so much better than 10 cities we cannot imagine it. Yet, no one will be jealous, or feel out of place. The doors to the New Jerusalem will always be open yet nothing evil will enter. The difference between good and evil will be open and transparent to all humanity. I think that it is impossible to understand the eternal quality of the lake of fire or of the new heavens and earth without passing first through judgement.
Thank you for writing. I found this very enlightening. The LDS view of Hell is not too dissimilar from some of your options listed above. In fact, we believe that rather than a strict Heaven and Hell, even the wicked will inherit a measure of eternal glory, with the possible, (unclear, I'm speculating) ability to further reconcile themselves to God through eternity.
God so ordered the world such that those that end up in hell (or non-existence among the conditional-immortality interpretation) are only those who would choose to reject God in all possible worlds.
I think his point is that God has this power or ability to cause people to believe, and if he exercised that power, hell would not be necessary, or even mentioned. That because we are created in His image with the capacity to love (and love is free to choose it's object), hell becomes God's only option for those who reject Him (in all possible worlds).
I can't wrap my head around many of these complicated theories like Molinism, which makes me think they're, like a lot of theology, arguments over the meanings of words rather than coherent ideas. My best analogy is that free will and predestination are rather like light being both a particle and a wave depending on how photons are observed. Both are true from our perspective, and both are presented as true in Scripture. It's a paradox we cannot untangle as subjective beings existing inside time.
God having middle knowledge (seen in scripture and not contested from what I've seen, 1 Samuel 23:12-13). That God knows what will happen but also knows what *would* happen in any possible situation.
And omnipotence not including logical contradictions (what most theologians think).
Then predestination means God selecting which world to create, knowing who would be saved or not in it by virtue of middle knowledge.
The debate is if a freewill decision is, at minimum, a choice not caused by an outside agent (the most sensible definition IMO). And if that is the case, then God can not cause a freewill decision (logical contradiction).
Wave–particle duality does not mean it is both a wave and particle at the same time and same way. It doesn't violate the law of identity. That is not a paradox or contradiction.
I agree that much theology is wrangling over words, trying to tease out more of the nature of God than he has shown us and that our languages can express. At the same time, the Calvinist concepts of predestination flow from their theory of the Atonement making the rest of theology subservient to the Atonement. If you have chance to read Arminius actual works they are fascinating.
Well done. I have been fascinated by the descriptions of the last / great Judgement. It is clearly multilevel and interactive with the whole of humanity, both the righteous and unrighteous. So that it appears that the whole of the history of the world and humanity will be replayed for all to see. We shall know fully as we are fully known. The queen of the south will rise up.... A person of faith. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah will rise up .... People condemned for their sin. Every idle word, every hidden thing. The image is of the whole of humanity seeing all that is done by everyone. It also seems that we will understand all the hidden aspects of creation, how the world comes together. I think this is necessary for us to know what each person's actions flow from, what influences, and what struggles. Paul says we will judge angels. Again, our full knowledge will go to the total influences that come into their rejection of or obedience to God. This total knowledege will allow us to join in Christ's judgment of the world. Every human will understand the actual level of obedience, love, hatred, rejection for each person and angle / heavenly being. Each person will know, understand, and be in full agreement with the judgement given to them. Yes, the flames of regret will be very hot, what I could have done with what was given to me, and the reality of what I actually valued and loved. The glory that will be revealed in us will be so much better than 10 cities we cannot imagine it. Yet, no one will be jealous, or feel out of place. The doors to the New Jerusalem will always be open yet nothing evil will enter. The difference between good and evil will be open and transparent to all humanity. I think that it is impossible to understand the eternal quality of the lake of fire or of the new heavens and earth without passing first through judgement.
Thanks for this. I was surprised by how thoughtful and honest it was.
Thank you for writing. I found this very enlightening. The LDS view of Hell is not too dissimilar from some of your options listed above. In fact, we believe that rather than a strict Heaven and Hell, even the wicked will inherit a measure of eternal glory, with the possible, (unclear, I'm speculating) ability to further reconcile themselves to God through eternity.
"God, however, can cause people to believe or take whatever action He desires."
Disagree. Can't make a square circle; can't force a free choice by definition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM29opD9XoE
God so ordered the world such that those that end up in hell (or non-existence among the conditional-immortality interpretation) are only those who would choose to reject God in all possible worlds.
I think his point is that God has this power or ability to cause people to believe, and if he exercised that power, hell would not be necessary, or even mentioned. That because we are created in His image with the capacity to love (and love is free to choose it's object), hell becomes God's only option for those who reject Him (in all possible worlds).
I can't wrap my head around many of these complicated theories like Molinism, which makes me think they're, like a lot of theology, arguments over the meanings of words rather than coherent ideas. My best analogy is that free will and predestination are rather like light being both a particle and a wave depending on how photons are observed. Both are true from our perspective, and both are presented as true in Scripture. It's a paradox we cannot untangle as subjective beings existing inside time.
Molinism is coherent. Is combines:
God having middle knowledge (seen in scripture and not contested from what I've seen, 1 Samuel 23:12-13). That God knows what will happen but also knows what *would* happen in any possible situation.
And omnipotence not including logical contradictions (what most theologians think).
Then predestination means God selecting which world to create, knowing who would be saved or not in it by virtue of middle knowledge.
The debate is if a freewill decision is, at minimum, a choice not caused by an outside agent (the most sensible definition IMO). And if that is the case, then God can not cause a freewill decision (logical contradiction).
Wave–particle duality does not mean it is both a wave and particle at the same time and same way. It doesn't violate the law of identity. That is not a paradox or contradiction.
I agree that much theology is wrangling over words, trying to tease out more of the nature of God than he has shown us and that our languages can express. At the same time, the Calvinist concepts of predestination flow from their theory of the Atonement making the rest of theology subservient to the Atonement. If you have chance to read Arminius actual works they are fascinating.